Why has Derek Smart picked a fight with Star Citizen?

Star Citizen

On August 21st, independent space game developer Derek Smart instructed the California law firm de la Peña & Holiday to send a demand letter. Addressed to key figures at Cloud Imperium, the letter asked for three things: a complete, “forensic” accounting of the studio’s expenses on behalf of the backers who’ve contributed to Star Citizen’s $89.1 million crowdfunding total; a release date for the game now that its provisional Kickstarter window of November 2014 is long gone; plus a refund for every contributor upset about the space sim’s protracted development and enlarged scope.

Smart’s since heard back. Cloud Imperium co-founder and lawyer Ortwin Freyermuth wrote that Smart's “defamatory claims are entirely without merit”. He argued that the information on the Star Citizen site would provide somebody of Smart’s industry knowledge with the tools to assess the project’s spending.

“We just laughed out loud,” Smart tells me. “How can anybody go to the website and say, ‘Oh, this is how $80 million dollars is being spent’? Who in their right minds would think that’s ok?”

Star Citizen

Smart’s determined to help set a legal precedent that will allow Kickstarter backers to rest easy when contributing towards a project, and see developers think hard about the pitches they make. So he’s sending a few more letters. One to the Federal Trade Commission. One each to the attorney generals of Florida and California. And another to the FBI.

“Let’s put it this way - lawsuit or no lawsuit, somebody is going to hold them accountable,” he says. “Whether it’s us or the feds it’s all going to come out, it’s only a matter of time. And there’s absolutely nothing on this God’s Earth that can stop it.”

In June, the FTC negotiated a settlement between the creators of a Cthulhu-themed board game and their backers. The project’s manufacturer had failed to ship the game, and were ordered to repay the $111,793.71 they had acquired through crowdfunding.

The FTC advised creators to keep their word when crowdfunding, and to use the money raised from crowdfunding only for the purpose represented. But Smart believes that until their stipulations are challenged in court, “they’re not worth the paper they’re written on”. Star Citizen, he maintains, is the most deserving case for the challenge.

“With this amount of money and exposure - $90 million dollars pledged and missed dates - all the original promises have been broken,” he says. “This isn’t hyperbole.”

It's worth noting that the original Star Citizen Terms of Service the nascent Cloud Imperium wrote after Star Citizen hit Kickstarter had backers acknowledge that “delivery as of [the estimated date] is not a promise by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time.”

But the foundations of Smart’s argument lie in those same Terms of Service. When backers visited the Roberts Space Industries website to claim their rewards (alpha and beta access, plus a future digital soundtrack, universe map and 42-page manual at higher tiers) they agreed that their pledge couldn’t be refunded “until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date”.

Star Citizen picks up speed

Star Citizen’s scope has since expanded, and the ToS have changed, granting Cloud Imperium an extra six months to finish the game. But that initial estimated date came and went in November 2014. What’s more, the current terms agree to an audited cost accounting on the Star Citizen website “in the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items”. Smart reckons all this leaves Cloud Imperium vulnerable to a specific performance court order, which would force them to fulfil the agreement made in their ToS.

“They haven’t delivered,” explains Smart. “So in November of 2015, which will have been a year since that [initial] launch date of November 2014, they will have to provide that accounting. And a refund.

“No-one asked them for this, they were the ones who said that if they don’t deliver in 12 months, we’ll tell you where the money went. This isn’t something that I’ve made up.”

Earlier in our chat, Smart had said that he didn’t believe that Chris Roberts or anybody at his company had “set out to commit fraud” (“What I think is that mistakes were made”). Yet he also thinks Cloud Imperium could fall foul of Fraud in the inducement - which would imply backers were persuaded into an agreement because of false information.

Armored space soldiers engage each other in a dim, metallic corridor illuminated by brilliant muzzle flashes.

“That one is huge,” he claims. “If they made statements in 2012 and never fulfill or intend to fulfill those statements, that’s another cause of action. So everyone screaming that I have no standing simply doesn’t understand how these things work.”

Asked about Derek Smart at Gamescom this year, Chris Roberts said he tried “not to get into any of that”.

But then he said: “I think people who talk about other people's work... I don't know what to say, other than, if someone spent so much energy focusing on their own stuff, maybe people would like their own stuff better.

“There's plenty of people who say you can't do certain things and I don't listen to them. You have to listen to people who have actually been able to do stuff and that you respect. That's not the case [here].”

Some have accused Smart of courting attention for his Early Access space and planetary combat MMO, Line of Defense. They’ve questioned the method in his long and discursive blog posts, which he refers to by name: Interstellar Citizens; Interstellar Justice; Interstellar Breach.

Star Citizen

But there are some things Derek wants you to understand. He isn’t an enemy of crowdfunding in principle, which he calls a “huge victory” for the way games are made. He’s not fighting this fight because he feels slighted, or because he’s jealous, or because he wanted the unsolicited $250 pledge refund Cloud Imperium gave him.

“I feel [that] no matter how I do - win, lose or draw - we’ll set some sort of precedent,” he says. “Even if it’s a simple thing such as the judge or arbitrator saying, ‘Yes, they have the right of access to your accounting’ - that’s huge. It just means that going forwards, nobody is going to go on Kickstarter, ask for money, and not be held accountable.”

Smart says he’s prepared for a protracted, expensive court case - he claims his games have made more than $200 million dollars over the course of his career. But if those letters arrive on the right desks, he suspects the state might stump up for him.

“What’s key here is whether it’s going to get to a judge before we know anything, or are the state attorneys going to get there first,” he says. “Those laws are very strict, so they can say, ‘This is Derek Smart’ all they want - but the bottom line is they pitched a product, they have not delivered, [and] they are not being held accountable.”

Star Citizen

Given Smart’s rhetoric, it’s easy to think that the situation is doomed to escalate. But it’s worth noting that only $2.1 million of Star Citizen’s $89.1m crowdfunding total was raised during the initial Kickstarter campaign, before the game was rescoped. To get Smart to “shut up”, in his words, Cloud Imperium could simply refund that minority overnight.

“Let people wake up to an email saying, ‘Here’s your money’, and then sell a bunch more ships to cover that $2.1 million dollars,” Smart suggests. “Suddenly, the whole vision 1.0 and Kickstarter aberration goes away. This is not so hard.”

There’s a strange counterpoint to the fury and velocity of Smart’s crusade. He doesn’t actually want Cloud Imperium to fail. When contacted by a group wanting to build a class-action lawsuit around the information Smart has so meticulously gathered, he decided that “doing that sort of thing would have the appearance that I wanted it to fail, or I wanted to cause problems. That really wasn’t the case”.

Star Citizen executive producer quits

Here’s what people don’t understand, says Smart: “There’s still, so far, no legal precedent for a crowdfunded project to be held accountable for slipping, not delivering and how the money is being spent... You have to start connecting the dots. We’re talking about $90 million with no accountability.

“For me, this whole thing [is] about gaining accountability for one of the largest crowdfunded projects in history, and the fact that it falls squarely in my backyard of space combat. This is bigger than Star Citizen. That’s the point.”

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RadioActiveLobster avatarAmdisity avatarShriven avatarjcrg99 avatargazwkd avatarbshanZz avatar+27
bshanZz Avatar
37
2 Years ago

Enough with this clown already

8
Shriven Avatar
3456
2 Years ago

He targeted Star Citizen as he had his own space trading/combat game fail. So I cant trust his thoughts as un-loaded.

BREAKING Cloud Imperium has fired a lot of staff and several reported to have walked out of Santa Monica office. I say breaking..it got that from Mr Smarts Twitter....... noone else reporting it...

Edit: My opinions are not to be considered unbiased though as I have backed it.

6
jcrg99 Avatar
21
2 Years ago

According with Mr. Smart, that letter of an ex-employee that he shared in his last blog, sparked an unprofessional and offensive reaction of Sandi Gardiner, humilliating employees in public, in the Santa Monica office, leading to people simply delivering their key cards and leaving.

Besides, apparently two famous employees (which appears constantly in their shows ATV and RTV) were fired. James Pugh, assistant community manager and Alyssa Delhotal which works with Sandi Gardiner, apparently accused to share information with Mr. Smart, which he denied.

The "Ship-Shape" anchor show (and responsible to deal with temporary workers that are hired in general to design ships, etc., Lisa Ohanian is reported to have given a two-weeks notice to leave.

Paul Forgy was one of those who left on the spot, and monthly reports of CIG in June, told that he was working in the Bengal Carrier.

Also, 9 people from Austin were informed that they will be kicked out, and sources said that the plan is to shut down the entire Austin office as quietly as possible.

Sources of DS also claim that they have just 8 million dollars left and based in their plans to get more money with new ship sales, and their burnrate, the expectation is to end the money in the 1st quarter of 2016, yet several months to the release of Squadron 42 (reported to do not coming out in at least 15 months - I am not sure if he refers here to the entire campaign, or just the 1st chapter), so that would be some of the reasons for the downsize.

Derek also make some advices to these employees to what they should and what not do at this point.

The entire missive is here:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snh7pg

UPDATE: Apparently those employees had profiles in the RSI website and they were already removed, so, it seems totally legit, one more time (since all previous reports of Mr. Derek happened to be all true).

-8
gazwkd Avatar
17
2 Years ago

Please take no notice of jcrg99.

He feels hard done by and will look and comment on anything SC related negative wise.

He got a refund - refuses to move on with his life instead of spending every waking moment looking for places to spread vitriol and hate.

He sent quite a few harassing emails to CIG and it's staff - nice behaviour.

He goes under many pseudonyms - mainly due to comment section bans due to massive trolling:

https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Manzes

7
-PRO]II[ZAC- Avatar
16
2 Years ago

ah that brazilian guy an "co-worker" of DS?

3
-PRO]II[ZAC- Avatar
16
2 Years ago

So some people got fired...wow....nothing new. and the rest of the informations could be easly made up by DS

5
tiredoftrolls Avatar
5
2 Years ago

like others have said please do not listen to JCRG99 he's a troll and been harassing CIG and it's employees for almost 2 years now. he has over a dozen banned alts on there website and posts negative information on almost every media website with an article on star citizen that he can find. he's now teamed up with Derek Smart to smear them as badly as possibly.

5
MrAptronym Avatar
361
2 Years ago

Sounds unconfirmed, but they do have a history of not talking about these things until way after the profiles go down and accounts lose privileges.

1
jcrg99 Avatar
21
2 Years ago

It was confirmed by the employees who left already in twitter and through other sources.

-4
TheMadGolemSC Avatar
14
TheMadGolemSC replied to jcrg99
2 Years ago

Look Tufao, You are a disturbed individual with serious issues. Stop harrassing Sandi Gardiner for christ sakes.

2
RadioActiveLobster Avatar
59
2 Years ago

All I've learned throughout this whole thing is that Derek Smart is an idiot.

6
Recluse Avatar
172
2 Years ago

This coming from the guy that has made some of the worst games ever.

6
NihlusGreen Avatar
637
2 Years ago

How did DS make over $200 mill when there are maybe a dozen people on steam who like his games?

Enahnced Steam: Line of Defense "MMO"

0: playing now

1: today's peak 1

111: all-time peak Powered by SteamCharts.com

hardly an MMO

DS Desktop Commander was much better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIn1_9YvGds

5
MrAptronym Avatar
361
2 Years ago

Yeah, but this new drama made Derek Smart a temporary mod on the very site he threatened to sue for making that video.

2
Recluse Avatar
172
2 Years ago

*80's soda spray

1
Arathorn Avatar
5
2 Years ago

Derek's demands as presented here sound reasonable. But this article is missing a lot of things. SC backers want Derek out, because he's a hypocrite who's done terrible things to his customers and colleagues.

1. Derek's never even installed any part SC. How is he in any position to claim that CIG hasn't delivered?

2. CIG is already giving out refunds to those who ask. Why is Derek still yelling about refunds? CIG is known for good customer service, let's see what Derek is known for: When LoD customers want refunds, he says EA disallows refunds. Rubbish! Read Steam's refund policy yourself. Steam has said that if Derek just posts a notice saying that Customer [username] is allowed a refund, Steam will honor it. To this, Derek just replies "my previous statement that EA = no refund" is all I have to say., and walks away. Who do you think should have a good hard look at their refund policy and treatment of customers, CIG or Derek?

3. If CIG is evil for being 1 year late, what about LoD with its 2 year 9 month delay? LoD was to be released end 2012, YouTube has a video of him saying that to a reporter at Gamescon '12. Today, the game is still in Early Access! His claims that he's changed the engine, so... where's the proof? If you look at his promo materials at the end of the Gamescon video, and today's materials on Steam EA, they're the same. But OK, maybe he's no lying. What about committting to a hard release date, something he's himself thinks is so important. Well, he's also said that Steam allows him to be in Early Access for as long as he pleases, and he's quietly changed his own release dates at least once WITHOUT notifying customers.

These 3 are just a small bits of Derek's hypocrisy that I have time to share today. You don't have to care about SC, but ask yourself if this man is worthy of your support for ANY cause.

5
-PRO]II[ZAC- Avatar
16
2 Years ago

Desktop Smart

4
gazwkd Avatar
17
2 Years ago

OH MY GOD!.. Oh wait Smart has 'sources' funny how that's all he ever says. Says a lot and never backs it up.

I really would love to see someone take this chump for all the money he has.

He is the greatest stain on gaming and an online bully/troll full of spite and vitriol over a project he only dreams he could achieve a fraction of.

3
ArcusTenshi Avatar
73
2 Years ago

Sigh, I thought PCGamesn was sane.

PC sites nowadays are very pessimistic when it comes to Star Citizen, I'll come back to this kind of articles when Star Citizen blows your mind.

3
srwirish Avatar
9
2 Years ago

Document explaining derek smarts demands and why his own lawyers thinks he's crazy. ---------https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/15-09-03_rsi-response-to-demand-letter.pdf ---------------------------

The truth about Derek Smarts claim, he NEVER downloaded SC nor PLAYED star citizen. The check that was returned to him he deliberately changed his address so he can accuse RSI of not ever sending it to his address. Which they tracked and sent him ANOTHER check.

CIG’s letter then gets nasty, referencing Smart’s “past career performance, including struggles with tax liens and a bankruptcy proceeding”. “The complete absence of any functioning or successful game having ever been released by him in his 20+ year ‘career’ of game development further raises the question why he would consider himself qualified to cast any judgement on Star Citizen.

3
panbient Avatar
210
2 Years ago

But that cuts both ways. Why would their own lawyer spend the better part of 3 pages complaining about Derek Smart's character rather than simply and directly addressing the 3 points within the initial communication?

Both sides are loving the free press.

1
Late_Night_Latte Avatar
3
2 Years ago

"Why would their own lawyer spend the better part of 3 pages complaining about Derek Smart's character rather than simply and directly addressing the 3 points within the initial communication?"

Because they need to make sure the court and any potential jury understand why that Derek Smart guy is harassing them, and how his pompous claims of being an industry veteran who know his subject is complete bollocks, as the guy wasn't ever capable of properly leading a project.

If you only read DS claims, it sounds like he's being a reliable industry vet - when he's actually just a fool spinning out anything sent to him into some conspiracy fraud rants. He's been doing that for years, which is why trolls love to send him forged materials to make him lose his mind and spout completely delirious claims to journalists and social media.

It would be a shame to have that game of playing DS like a fiddle turn into a costly and tiresome lawsuit for a dev company that's already busy with a serious project. Trolls don't care (not their job) but backers and gamers do, so we should make sure that everyone understand what kind of person DS is.

1
snesobangbadang Avatar
2
2 Years ago

There's something soothing about watching the flames of a burning garbage pile in the fall.

2
AnAuldWolf Avatar
868
2 Years ago

I'm a weird human being, me. I don't particularly experience the cathartic satisfaction of schadenfreude. I just feel ill at ease for everyone involved that isn't Roberts or Smart. I think people forget that the big alpha personalities aren't the only people involved.

1
Jenks Avatar
344
2 Years ago

I'm a Kickstarter backer of Star Citizen. I'm very happy with my pledge. I don't want an email giving me my money back.

Derek Smart is no longer a backer of the game. I wish he'd go away now.

2
svdb Avatar
2
2 Years ago

But of course... Derek Smart... who else? The guy who took money from investors who never saw their ROI because he burned it in nightclubs... the guy who screams in your face "I'm right because I'm your boss!". Does anyone remember playing any of Derek's games?

So yeah, Derek is bitter and he has reasons. Everything he did pretty much sucked. Battlecruiser 3000AD : 2.6/10 on Gamespot.

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/battlecruiser-3000-ad-review/1900-2538148/

In 2004 came out Half Life 2, Doom 3 and Far Cry, now compare that to Derek's "Universal Combat" released the same year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Naybp1AR8TA

Oh and make sure to check out his latest master piece "Line of defence":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOm_0u2JBMQ

and check out its reviews on, for instance, Steam.

I'm pretty sure Chris Roberts is a very very tough boss to work for, and there are many not just in the game industry, but Derek is just full of Sh%%.

2
StreetPizza Avatar
3
2 Years ago

Agreed. I'm baffled how DS is threatened by SI. I don't see any of his titles as in the same league. This is my entry vehicle.....Sir....that is a tri-circle. ...I know.....sir.....this a motorcycle race.

2
The Burrito Avatar
3
2 Years ago

Oh man, BC3000AD. How the fuck do you even move your ship? What are all those gauges for?

What the fuck is a tutorial? Smart doesn't even know.

2
bryant Avatar
167
2 Years ago

Angry black man. Get over it, your failure isn't because you're black Derek, it's because you're an asshole.

2
Late_Night_Latte Avatar
3
2 Years ago

KS backer here, I'm 100% fine with Star Citizen being delayed and becoming something bigger. This is exactly what I want from the project since the beginning: taking the time to make the space game I've always dreamed of. I got the fantastic E:D too, if anyone's wondering.

Derek Smart is just an awful failure (never made a game that wasn't a commercial disaster, never made a critically acclaimed game) and he's now spending his time harassing successful companies, hoping to get some settlement money to stop the negative PR he's spreading everywhere. PCGamesN should NOT help him deploy that harassment.

I seriously hope Cloud Imperium will fight back and shut that arsehole down, we had enough of that DS pathological abuser. He's now pretending to play it cool, "I only want transparency" but that's complete bullshit. We have seen how he works, he's a narcissist megalomaniac who hate seeing people not failing like him.

DS got his money back long ago (despite trying to make it bounce by changing his address at the last moment), he never installed any modules - yet he claims to speak in the name of backers, yet he makes shitload of BS claims about the modules. So screw you DS, go back to your failures and leave game devs alone.

And Manzes (aka jcrg99), call a cab to go home, you're drunk on DS fanboyism. Your hate of Star Citizen turns you into a complete fool who can't comprehend basic context and standard business practices.

2
AnAuldWolf Avatar
868
2 Years ago

He's just like that, isn't he? Derek, I mean. He's a special little man that believes his space games are naturally better than those of everyone else. Oh, and Roberts has kind of promised an impossible game which they could never possibly deliver on.

I'm glad I didn't back this pony. Too much drama.

1
The Burrito Avatar
3
2 Years ago

Oh, for fuck's sake. Derek Smart can't even see past his own failures of a game. "This can't possibly have $80 million and not be misappropriated," he says. Just because 3000AD doesn't have several offices around the country doesn't mean others can't... And have you even played his games? Buggy, no quality...

For Christ's sake, I thought this clown finally faded into obscurity.

1
ScottyWired Avatar
9
2 Years ago

Question: Why has Derek Smart picked a fight with Star Citizen?

Answer: He's an asshole. He's been a professional troll for over 25 years, going all the way back to Bulletin Board Systems (which stopped being popular before I was even born, go read up on your computer history). I say professional troll because he needs the drama to attract attention to his own games.

1
Jidgeeboy Avatar
1
1 Year ago

Who seriously cares about Derek Sh*t? He made a bunch of space games, they were shit, and now a game vastly superior to any of the games he sh*t out is in the making and he can't handle it. And so he spends his every waking moment trying to damage Star Citizen's reputation as much as he can. I saw his twitter feed once and it was literally just littered with offensive and idiotic comments about Star Citizen. He's made it his LIFE GOAL to ensure that Star Citizen somehow fails.

He's just a salty guy whose glory days never came because he's incompetent. He shouldn't be taken seriously and anyone who actually buys the sh*t he spews are as dumb as he is. Period.

1
Absalomx Avatar
3
7 Months ago

Derek "not so" Smart has always been an idiot regarding the game industry, knowing what the players want, and game development. I actually used his abysmal "Battlecruiser 3000 A.D." as the focus of a paper I wrote in my game software dev degree program back in 2004 because it had become such an Albatross that nobody would touch anything from Derek Smart. It became so bad that he started trying to release games later without his name attached to the product. He is a joke in the game industry, and he will never get out of that rut.

That said, Star Citizen is a joke and will never be fully released. Already they are dated regarding graphics and many of the game mechanics and technologies. They have spent way more money than they can ever hope to recover in a reasonable amount of time. They are just doomed to fail. I played what they have so far, and it wasn't impressive in the least.

1
Amdisity Avatar
83
2 Years ago

I don't know Derek Smart or much about his games, so I can't give out a biased opinion like most people and ignoring what's actually going on.

From what I've gathered from a neutral standpoint it all makes sense. I want to know where all this money is going and how it's spent. It wouldn't surprise me after looking into all the accounting details that there'll be a lot of money missing, misused or wasted. With this brought to attention, perhaps future projects of a similar nature will take more care with their money in all aspects. I can't see how it's a negative or why people should be upset about it in any way.

0
Anakhoresis Avatar
606
2 Years ago

My guess would be that except for missing release dates (which really, seeing how much the scope has expanded with the influx of funding, isn't surprising), a lot of backers (and there are obviously a lot of them) don't really see much reason to do it anyway?

As someone who hasn't backed Star Citizen, nor do I really follow it particularly much except for what pops up on PCG, they seem to be delivering a fair amount of content that's quite high quality, have a good connection with their community, and at least to me there aren't a huge amount of warning bells except their odd ship selling thing which sounds optional anyway?

Derek Smart claims he doesn't have a particular grudge against SC, which kind of makes it seem weirder that he's being so persistent. I mean, I don't think any other games of such scope and budget were churned out as quickly as he seems to think SC should be. He's saying that he wants them to refund the KS backers, but despite their terms of service, has SC actually shown any sort of disregard to trying not to when requested? It kind of seems he's fighting a battle for people that don't quite exist yet...

5
[LYS]BattleFate Avatar
3
2 Years ago

Particularly concerning how Smart suggests that CIG just refund all KS backers. Do most KS backers even want refunds? How pissed would someone be if they received a forced refund eliminating all their early backer rewards?

3
StreetPizza Avatar
3
2 Years ago

If you aren't putting up money you have no opinion worth hearing to me. I can clearly speak for myself. I accepted the risk, I accept the risk going forward and SI will continue to get money from me. The CHANCE they will pull off what they propose is TOTALLY worth the price of admission. You want out fine get a refund and GTFO and STFU

0
Jenks Avatar
344
2 Years ago

"I want to know where all this money is going and how it's spent."

That's nice, but neither you nor Derek Smart have that right. Preordering a space ship does not make you an investor in Cloud Imperium. If you preorder the next Call of Duty game, does that give you the right to know how Activision is spending the money? There are some misguided people (like Smart) whose sense of entitlement is off the charts here. You preordered a video game and a space ship. You don't get to see where the money is going. If you are worried about it, don't preorder things.

-2
Flappers Avatar
302
2 Years ago

Kickstarting is NOT pre-ordering. I wish people would understand that.

Kickstarting is funding development of a game. When the developers promise certain things, they have to fulfill that promise, according to Kickstarter FAQ.

But because Star Citizen developers seem to have a good legal team (it's amazing what 80 million dollars can get you), they've managed to get around that with their own T&C.

Thing is, I'm not a backer of Star Citizen, and I couldn't care less what happens with that game.

This Derek guy also sounds like a jerk, and the FTC will see that there is a conflict of interest, as he is developing his own space game. (Getting the FBI involved? Seriously?!)

But either way, when you kickstart a game, you have every right to know where the money is going. There have been far too many cases of people trying to run away with the money, and not deliver the game.

Or use the money poorly, and provide an unfinished, completely terrible game (looking at you Godus). In cases like that, you should know why your money is being spent poorly, when you expected a completely different product.

So I will re-iterate. Kickstarting is NOT pre-ordering. The ships you get are backer rewards, for pledging a certain amount.

Now you can pre-order the game, and get a ship, directly on their website. But this article and what Derek Smart is talking about specifically is their use of Kickstarter.

3
Jenks Avatar
344
2 Years ago

Kickstarting is exactly the same as preordering. It is not investing.

I kickstarted the game. The 2.1 million has been spent many times over. This is a non issue to anyone but complete morons.

-6
Flappers Avatar
302
Flappers replied to Jenks
2 Years ago

No... no it's not pre-ordering.

Pre-ordering is pre-ordering... kickstarter is a way to provide money to help development of a project.

A pre-order is to place an "order" of an item before it is available for purchase.

Kickstarter is not a pre-order system. In fact, Kickstarter themselves have an FAQ that clearly states this

https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store

Read through that before making ridiculous claims based on no merit.

If you kickstarter a project to pre-order a project (that hasn't even STARTED development at the time of kickstarter) then that is just plain stupid.

3
gazwkd Avatar
17
gazwkd replied to Jenks
2 Years ago

It is investing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstarter#Model

0
MrAptronym Avatar
361
2 Years ago

I have no love for Derek Smart or Star Citizen, so really this is just a crazy side-show for me to gawk at. I suppose more aptly, it is a collision between two different crazy trainwrecks.

0
jcrg99 Avatar
21
2 Years ago

More like a consumer issue. So, I don't know why people when talking about games, must to treat a consumer issue as "crazy side-show". Games are serious business, even that you just buy for entertainment, still must be treated serious as a product/service to be delivered. Specially under the deal made between CIG and their backers, where they promised a lot of things, and because the scenario is ugly than the marketing show that they created envolving themselves, they don't want to tell the true. They simply don't want to admit that made terrible mistakes to their "investors" (which are not looking for return in investiment, but still were expecting what was promised to then in the first place, instead entering in a new R&D project to "try" make something different, to do not say, impossible).

They broke their contract and want to enforce the other part to accept the break. There is nothing too much "crazy" going on here. Craziness is to ignore that.

-6
TsunamiWombat Avatar
642
2 Years ago

Now, on the one hand, Derek Smart is a fucking clown. On the other, Star Citizen is vaporware and i'm going to cry bitter, laughing tears when it fails to deliver anything.

0
jcrg99 Avatar
21
2 Years ago

Yes. If there is a crowdfunding that broke consumer/marketing/advertising laws more than any other ever, that is Star Citizen. If they won't be accountable for that, the crowdfunding business ever will be accountable for anything.

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NihlusGreen Avatar
637
2 Years ago

Specifically which laws have they broken?

4
jcrg99 Avatar
21
2 Years ago

FTC Act, Fair Act... to name a few... there are more both Federal and State laws. It's definitely a guinness book of records, considering crowdfunding.

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NihlusGreen Avatar
637
2 Years ago

Doesn't sound specific at all

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TheMadGolemSC Avatar
14
2 Years ago

Can a moderator please ban jcrg? He is alting (Original Name Tufao)

1
nu1mlock Avatar
744
2 Years ago

Nice to see you here, Derek!

4
NihlusGreen Avatar
637
2 Years ago

If you look at the 3000AD Steam forums there are some suspicious accounts that help enforce the heavy handed moderating

1
NihlusGreen Avatar
637
2 Years ago

https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Manzes It's Manzes

1
MES3rd Avatar
3
2 Years ago

Can you please cite the actual consumer/marketing/advertising laws that CIG and Star Citizen broke?

3