Sony's Shuhei Yoshida says he understands "some criticisms Sean Murray is getting" for No Man's Sky | PCGamesN

Sony's Shuhei Yoshida says he understands "some criticisms Sean Murray is getting" for No Man's Sky

No Man's Sky

Update September 16, 2016: President of Sony's Worldwide Studios, Shuhei Yoshida, has spoken up on the controversy surrounding No Man's Sky and its perceived lack of promised features, saying he understands some of the criticisms. 

During the Tokyo Game Show, Yoshida said the blame was at least partly down to Hello Games' pre-release PR strategy and how it built up unrealistic expectations.

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"I understand some of the criticisms especially Sean Murray is getting," Yoshida said in an interview with Eurogamer, "because he sounded like he was promising more features in the game from day one.

"It wasn't a great PR strategy, because he didn't have a PR person helping him, and in the end he is an indie developer. But he says their plan is to continue to develop No Man's Sky features and such, and I'm looking forward to continuing to play the game."

Yoshida also said that personally he "really enjoyed" playing No Man's Sky, but he could understand others not feeling the same. While I agree that the messaging was partly to blame, it does feel like Sony are throwing Murray under a bus a bit here. After all, they were supposed to be helping with marketing, so they could have helped shape that message.

Either way, the whole thing has been extremely messy and it's not wonder Murray and the Hello Games account have been silent on Twitter for around a month. If anyone's due a break from the internet, it's these guys. 

Cheers, Eurogamer.

Update August 10, 2016: Sean Murray has tweeted about the pair of players that met in No Man's Sky without being able to see each other, saying it's incredible.

No Man's Sky creator Sean Murray has commented on the two players that met each other, streamed it, but couldn't see each other. He doesn't say why not, or what the "online features" he mentions are, or whether they're working.

Here's the full string, from Twitter.

It's not a particularly satisfying explanation for confused fans. Murray doesn't directly say why the players couldn't see each other, or what the features he's teasing actually are.

The implication is that the number of people using the servers is overwhelming certain systems. While there haven't been any widespread complaints - and if we've learned anything over the past few years, it's that everyone finds out when there are server issues in new games - it's possible that server instancing that would allow players to see each other is silently not working in the background. Think about how dodgy the multiplayer messages and soapstone signs can be upon the release of a Dark Souls game, without actually impacting your experience in a noticable way.

Sadly, the pair who met up on Twitch didn't have archiving on, so we can't analyse the footage for any more answers. Hopefully Sean Murray or Hello Games are planning a longer explanation of exactly what the online elements of the game are. Today brings the official release date of the game in Europe, so we can only expect player numbers to go up. We're guessing it sold pretty well, at least.

In the mean time, the community is continuing to express their displeasure, including making videos like this, bringing together all the times Sean Murray has mentioned multiplayer in regards to No Man's Sky:

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There are also those more sympathetic, like Reddit poster Halo_Jumper_3 who explains all the ways the servers could be breaking. More still are simply getting on with enjoying the game, and the most popular post on the subreddit on day one is a post explaining you can take proper screenshots on the PS4.

We're contacting Hello Games for comment on all this.

Original story August 9, 2016: People have been extremely confused about No Man's Sky. Speaking about the game on Twitter today, I've had people messaging to say they didn't even realise it was a survival game. Another point of uncertainty is multiplayer, and whether players can meet up in this vast space. For many, the game is still a mystery.

Two streamers may have finally put it to rest, meeting up on a planet in the middle of the universe and realising that they couldn't see each other. Here's a picture of the scene, and the associated Reddit thread. They met up at the same time, but the time of day on the planet is different for both players, suggesting that everyone is placed in a separate instance. 

This flies in the face of what Hello Games boss Sean Murray has been communicating. While he has consistently said it's not a multiplayer experience, he's always said that's a issue born from the enormous distances separating players. 

“People keep asking us about multiplayer and I think when people see this they are going to fully realise what it means to be that far away from somebody else who’s playing,” Sean Murray told GameInformer in 2014.

“People keep saying to us, ‘Yeah, but what if I knew where they were? Would I go there?’ And it’s like, yeah, but they are going to have to stay there for quite a while while you get over there. And then once you get over there you might land on the same planet and then you will say, ‘I’m on a planet the size of Earth and I am on a mountain. Where are you?’ Which is, I know, a weird thing and it’s a daunting thing.”

In the video below (from 2:40), Murray says multiplayer isn't a focus and meeting another player would be "incredibly rare" and "might never happen". When pressed, he backtracks a bit, saying: "That's not really what the game is about. When you talk about multiplayer, it just gives people the wrong impression.It's not what we're trying to build and it's not what people should be thinking about going into the game."

This was from March this year. 

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Just yesterday Murray responded to multiplayer questions once more, via his Twitter, reiterating that the distances are so vast that bumping into another player is highly unlikely. 

Now before you get out the pitchforks, it's worth noting that this could be some kind of bug, or perhaps it's an issue that hasn't been ironed out just yet. But still, there's a clear problem with the messaging here. 

Another notable detail is how your character has no physical form - not even arms - suggesting you control a floating camera and a gun. You can also pause the game, which is usually a no-no in a shared universe. Just look at Elite: Dangerous. 

This could perhaps be down to instancing, which grabs players from nearby and puts you in the same lobby. Perhaps these two players were placed in a different instance, hence the different times of the day. Back to that GameInformer interview, Murray did expand on instancing a bit.

"The only answer that I can think of for this is a really technical one," Murray says. "If we were to make a game where we synchronised every player, what they were doing with every other player, then that would be impossible and no one has ever done that. What we can do is, like many games that you have at the moment, where you are flying around with an open lobby. People are coming into that lobby and leaving it - like if you play Watch Dogs or something like that.

"Effectively, we have players joining your discrete space. We're not trying to make an MMO where you can play with literally 60,000 people on screen. We handle the case like where other people can fly past in your game or that you can bump into other players in the game.

"But that's okay for us because it will never happen. I guess the whole of the entire community could organise to go to one specific spot and then they would find that they weren't all there at the same time. That would be ridiculous."

When asked how many people can be in a lobby at one time, Murray won't give a definitive answer: "The lobby that you carry around with you now can, it's almost like I don't wanna say because people will just test it, it can carry a few people. More than what you will see during the normal course of the game.

"Just to be really clear, the reason that I'm saying this is we just want to be really clear with people that it is not an MMO. All of those questions are leading toward that. There are loads of MMOs out there. People can play those. We want people to be able to get a sense of playing with other people and to see other people and feel like this is a real, live universe. 

"If you're thinking, 'Okay, okay, I understand all of that, Sean, but let's say all my friends want to go and play together.' That's not what this is about. You've seen the galactic map. I don't want to disappoint people. I don't want to answer your question and then they will think, “Yeah, yeah, he's saying it's difficult, but I'll do it. And then we will play Destiny together, effectively. We will all run around the planets.” 

"No. If you want to play a first-person-shooter-sci-fi-run-around-on-a-planet game, play Destiny. It’s a really good game. Go play that. We're not trying to do that.

"Like Journey multiplayer, that was a huge part of the game for me, but they did a good job in not describing it as a multiplayer game. Journey would have been really disappointing if you entered into it thinking it was a multiplayer game. It's not. Dark Souls I think of as a single-player experience, but I'm really glad of the elements that they have in there."

With two players doing something that Sean Murray himself said was almost impossible on the first day, no doubt we will soon find out what's going on beneath the surface of No Man's Sky's shared universe. Never underestimate the speed of a gaming community in overturning secrets.

Subnautica
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Shriven avatarnu1mlock avatarGlen_Runciter avatardirgenweb avatarAnAuldWolf avatarViperZeroOne avatar+25
Glen_Runciter Avatar
301
1 Year ago

Aaaand the next time something like this happens, people are gonna believe all the bullshit again, and spend money, and games will keep having more and more lies and broken features.

Yay.

6
Tovias Avatar
1026
1 Year ago

Makes me wonder if anyone who bought this fell for the Spore meme too

Boy that game killed me inside

0
huldu Avatar
251
1 Year ago

Spore was actually fun unlike NMS. Big difference.

1
AnAuldWolf Avatar
872
1 Year ago

Not I!

Really, you just have to pay attention to how people are talking about their game. And there is a difference. For example, Molyneux I feel I still trust because I was always able to distinguish what he dreamed a game could be (and wanted it to be, ideally) from what it would be and adjusted my expectations accordingly.

That's the thing with Molyneux. He was never a liar. He was just crazy passionate about game design, and an irrepressible dreamer. Those who got burned with Godus deserved it, for not being able to manage their own expectations. And sometimes you'll have a game that's great at launch, but then ruined over time through mismanagement, making me long for the days of optional patches.

However, with No Man's Sky.... How can I put this? They were too political. It wasn't about being passionate with them, it was clearly always pandering. I didn't want to say too much before the game got closer to release and other people started seeing it. I just saw so much pandering. Almost every 'Jetfighters in Space!' tropey game is like this. If not all of them. The developers of them want to make money with cash-ins.

If they'd just been honest, or displayed any honesty, I could have forgiven them much. They were so political though, speaking in very vague terms and always spinning things. It's that kind of thing where people use so much corporate doublespeak it makes your head spin.

There's a difference between being an idealist and deliberately misleading people, and I think the latter is what happened here even without being cynical about it at all. It's just obvious.

-3
Dr. Yade Avatar
3
1 Year ago

You're kidding me right?

He did this with godus, Fable, and at least two other games. People supported him financially and he abandoned those people. He never finishes games. You can defend his passion all you want, but i'm not so naïve.

Doesn't matter if you got good intentions, and are passionate and just dream about the game you are creating but make sure you got good ways of handling situations. He just ran.

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SAILLC Avatar
2
1 Year ago

Tell that to all the studios he basically gutted and ruined with his neurotic, arrogant behavior. If you read up on it, all the first hand accounts of working with Peter basically can be summed up with this, it was a fucking nightmare for everyone. On top of that, hes done this over and over in his career, having early success excused his misfires early in his career, but at this point you can only call him toxic to any game development or production. He hasn't had a successful project in years, and each one seems to shit the bed sooner and sooner. Its not just his "unbridled passion", its also a heaping dose of incompetence along with it.

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saluk Avatar
5
1 Year ago

Wow, to call molyneux just passionate, and then call Murray a liar...

There is a difference between an idealist and misleading people, but you have them backwards on which is which. One of these developers would list all of the amazing things that you can do in the game, and then have all of those features not actually make it into the game. The other would list all of the features of the game, have gamers respond with "but what do you actually do?" and then be evasive and keep returning to how cool the algorithm is. From the beginning, gamers wanted No Man's Sky to be a thing that it was never going to be. And the developers have reacted as best they can, even though what they were really passionate about was at odds with what their fans were excited about.

It was the fans in this case who were hopelessly idealistic, not the developer. It's just obvious. There was a large contingent of us who knew exactly what NMS was going to be and were amazed at those who thought it was going to be something that the developers never claimed it was going to be.

1
Flappers Avatar
302
1 Year ago

Here's the thing (I don't want to sound defensive or anything, just pointing out facts)...

1. The servers at the time went offline. There was a large influx of players, and it knocked off the servers, so people were playing offline without realizing it. Check their twitter feed...

2. Multiplayer uses Peer to Peer technology. The way it works in this game is similar to that of Elite Dangerous, where if players meet up, it creates a local instance hosted by one of the players, and the other player connects to it. This issue could be caused by conflicting NAT configurations, or blocked ports on either end.

3. It could well be just a bug (as mentioned in the article).

My money is on point 2. Even in Elite Dangerous some players can't join other players instances due to conflicting network configurations. My guess is that it's the same case here.

Until we have other people experiencing the same, using this as clear evidence that there is no multiplayer meetups in the game is a bit far fetched.

Just trying to remain objective here...

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FTR iRage Avatar
3
1 Year ago

You are very much correct. I read the reddit post and apparently Sean said that when you get close enough to another player you will connect to their "private server". If this is how it works and the servers were having issues, then nobody would've been able to connect to someone else's server, meaning they wouldn't be able to see each other, which also explains why the time of day was different. When base building comes out we will be able to see if it actually is multiplayer because we will be able to see if we see what other players see. We might even be able to see if multiplayer is a thing when PC comes out because it'll be easier to communicate across steam and you can data mine to see if there even is a player model.

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[ES.GR] mael9740 (Grn) Avatar
2

Some peoples datamined the game, and there is no position sending to the server. That"s the answer.

2
trgz Avatar
2
1 Year ago

That's probably the most intelligent,and plausible, appraisal of the scenario and/or problem that I've read so far.

1
WhiteCrow Avatar
625
1 Year ago

There's jumping the shark, and then there's pole-vaulting the shark. What's going on here is rocket-jumping the shark.

I watched the streams the moment they began, and the amount of network issues throughout wasn't something to take lightly. Others have reported instances of connecting to servers taking up to an hour, so many aren't even playing the game online.

To be fair, the streamers did attempt to cover all bases; one of them even purchasing Playstation Plus to see if that would fix things to no avail. I think this is a case of network issues and the servers getting absolutely hammered, but of course the opposite could be true.

Needless to say, the negative Nancy's are jumping all over it, as they have been throughout the game's development the moment they smell blood in the water. The amount of people wanting to see something fail that they will have no participation in is staggering.

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sheepy20 Avatar
2
1 Year ago

Does anyone know when the screen shot was taken? When this event supposedly happened? People keep jumping on this game but it's just a picture and a story from two people. If it was before the update it could have already been fixed. The update only came out Monday. Get a grip people. Also, I don't understand why there are so many haters for this game posting comments on its news pages, on its streams etc. If you don't like it why are you here? I don't like star citizen so I don't even go there.

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nu1mlock Avatar
769
1 Year ago

The screenshot is taken from two Twitch streamers that were streaming at the same time, trying to co-ordinate a meeting by various means. It was after the update and after the game had officially been released.

1
Akeldama Avatar
33
1 Year ago

Murray has been saying for a while now that it's not a multiplayer game, the game uses lobbies on your own instance of the game, that it's not an MMO and that meeting people works in the same way Dark Souls would.

This is all info that has been shared over and over and if you're getting upset about it, that's on you.

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Anato Avatar
8
1 Year ago

How is seeing absolutely nothing the same as Dark Souls?

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BigBadJon Avatar
2
1 Year ago

They probably just weren't on the same instance or on separate servers. You can't fit too many users on one server or it will cause problems. Probably 40-60 people on each server or instance is my guess. That's probably why the developer said running into someone would be unlikely.

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ViperZeroOne Avatar
1
1 Year ago

I haven't seen the video myself, but I've heard that this occurred on the PlayStation and one of the players wasn't logged into the PSN network.

This could be both the cause of the player appearing on the same planet and the reason they didn't see each other.

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Dark Wolf Sniperki11er Avatar
1

cant wait till sean see this!!!

1
Prime Avatar
250
1 Year ago

EDIT: Never mind

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rgronow Avatar
29
1 Year ago

People can be so funny. Hello Games have just delivered a near infinite universe that is varied and beautiful. Just look at that screenshot - the ship is huge! Every time I see a screenshot of a different gorgeous vista with a moon hanging in the sky I get blown away.

But then when it turns out that the Multiplayer is non existent, people get disappointed. Despite not being entirely honest about the reasons, Sean has said all along that it's not a MP game!

We are so hard to please! Just enjoy the beauty and the scale of it!

1
FTR iRage Avatar
3
1 Year ago

You are so correct. I was slightly disappointed when I heard about it but that's not the point of the game. Yes, it's cool to be able to meet new people and possibly explore with them and try and stick with them until you reach the center but it's not a multiplayer game.

1
trgz Avatar
2
1 Year ago

I for one didn't want this to include MP as IMHO find that it tends to lead to a game that I don't enjoy in general (though this is not strictly always the case) - what I've seen so far from PS4 reviews (though I'm not looking too closely so as to avoid spoilers) has not given me any cause for concern, though I shall soon find out...

1
xNuke Avatar
507
1 Year ago

"Can you go to the same location as another player on a planet and see them in the game?"

THE question I have been asking about this game wherever I could (except reddit, automod deleted every thread....).

Never got a reply, not we know why. IMO This is bullshit. I know it's "not a multiplayer" game, but come on, it's not a singleplayer game either....

"The chances of meeting other players are almost zero"... surprise someone met on the very first effin day!

1
Max Ursa Avatar
73
1 Year ago

I really dont know what all the fuss is about. This happens every so often in Elite, all due to networking & server issues. Thats in a game where you are expected to see other players, NMS you arent expected to meet. A little bit of log browsing and patching may well fix the issue. Again, I dont see what the fuss is about.

1
nukelheadmp Avatar
2
1 Year ago

The game was NEVER advertised as multiplayer. EVER. How can that be confusing? Is humanity just really as stupid as it keeps proving itself to be? Did I miss a whole alternate marketing campaign that everyone else was exposed to?

I was not at all confused by what they were selling. I was not at all shocked that the game does not focus on connecting you with other players. Anyone that is outraged about what was delivered should be put back in school for reading comprehension or something. Demanding something be done the way you want it does not mean you are promised to get it. The only thing that surprises me (even though it shouldn't anymore) is how completely wrong the mass public is. Is the game unbelievable massive and based on exploration and survival? Yep. That's EXACTLY what we were promised.

1
Insom Avatar
1
1 Year ago

Didn't trust this game during the hype up, and I don't trust it now, I expect it to be a near-total disappointment.

1
ghent96 Avatar
1
1 Year ago

The devs just need to come out and be truthful, and explicitly explain how multiplayer (or lack thereof) works in No Man's Sky.

...then, with the millions they earn from sales the first few days ;p they need to go buy Bungie's net code from Destiny and make it work right ;p

1
javen Avatar
1
1 Year ago

It's been made to sound like one big shared universe where everyone is in the same sandbox. So now the truth comes. It is not. It appears to be sharded just like WoW. You want a sand box game where ALL players are in the same universe running at the same time.. EVE ONLINE. It's only won a 'few' awards for being 'ok' ;) https://community.eveonline.com/news/awards-and-accolades/

1
Bidoofzo Okamiyowagatekiwokurae Avatar
4

No these guys are not due a break you don't show literal gameplay of things that don't actually exist on your youtube then go silent and not say anything about it even though you're still using the same outdated and fake gameplay videos to sell the game to this day. That is false advertising and if I'm not mistake illegal.

1
Shriven Avatar
3486
1 Year ago

Well....queue the refunds!

0
nu1mlock Avatar
769
1 Year ago

No Man's Sky has always sounded "better than it is". Now, I haven't played the game, but it all just gets worse and worse.

Of course they don't have actual multiplayer. They just wanted it to sound that way, hoping people wouldn't try to find each other.

They're a small indie-team with limited funding and the game has gotten more hype than many AAA games usually get. Yet somehow, they claim that they have managed to create this big universe and have proper multiplayer features, but they will never be used because people will never find each other?

Putting lots of resources into something that they know will "never" happen?

Yeah, right.

0
AnAuldWolf Avatar
872
1 Year ago

It's funny, really, because Starbound continues to deliver on many of the promises they made. There's just so much to do and so much personality. Last night, I visited a desert world with my partner only to find the remains of a crazy sun cult. We had to put them out of their misery because they were torturing people, and at the end, we sang a sad concerto for the lost souls. We covered over the remains and left a warning to any who might travel there in the future.

It was a strange little story of the ilk that can occur in Starbound. It's a little bit of microfiction created by the tools on offer. And it was just this memorable touch outside of the story. That's the kind of thing that No Man's Sky has been promising, but will never deliver. Generally, I'm pretty smart about the things I back.

They never did anything to dispel the NMS hype, by limiting the scope of expectations by hosting a Q&A and actively shutting down perceptions of what would be in the game. Instead, they were very specifically vague and evasive. They'd make good politicians. There ws just so much surrounding this game (much like Star Citizen), that made my skin crawl.

They really would make great politicians. Meanwhile, Chucklefish, despite being vilified for it, were always honest and up front about what they were doing. Even working hard on creating a balance between pleasing the 'I want it right now!' and 'I want it stable!' groups that were pulling them in different ways (thus resulting in longer gaps between stable releases, but having a beta which released nightlies).

I don't know. I'm just amazed sometimes about how much my love of Starbound snuck up on me. I mean, I always did like space games. It was one of the few sorts of sandboxes I can tolerate. But I prefer having a narrative, and I like having lots of options which make the game interesting to play. When it's just 'Survival!' for the sake of it? Meh. I couldn't think of anything more boring.

But yes, they brought this on themselves by politicking and letting the hype build instead of managing expectations. I just hope that people can claim refunds now that they understand the truth.

1
dirgenweb Avatar
1
1 Year ago

I am one of the many who preorder long ago and since my excitement has significantly decreased. "The chances to meet someone Ever, are nearly ZERO", once said by Sean and already not even 24 hrs after launch its happened? Sadly, this is only the PS4 folks. What happens when all the PC people get on? That brings me to another topic, why 3 day delay for PC? Possibly to satisfy Sony? Pathetic....

0
Flappers Avatar
302
1 Year ago

The delay was to add more options on PC... 21:9 support and FOV options.

Sure Sony probably also had something to do with it, but the developers can't exactly say no to them, they are their publisher.

2
AnAuldWolf Avatar
872
1 Year ago

I feel like I dodged a bullet.

I had a feeling, though. There was always something about this game that didn't quite sit well with me, and I think it was the lack of direction they had and how much pandering there is in it. I'm sorry, but 'Survival!' and 'Jetfighters in Space!' is indeed pandering to very specific, incredibly large audiences who seem to be buying these games in huge amounts, lately. I would even go so far as to say that the uninspired 'Jetfighters in Space!' trope is the new zombies. It's just jetfighters replacing the zombies as the primary trope. It's all very generic and uninspired. No romance to it at all.

That's why I like Starbound so much. It isn't 'Jetfighters in Space!' because my ship can be whatever the heck I want it to be. And if I'm playing an Avali (the blessed, divine race), then my ship is so far detached from Ye Olde Jetfighter that it doesn't even hold for consideration.

I saw early on in Starbound, in the lore and the little touches, that this was a passion project. It was never a pandering game to begin with. If it had been, then resources would've been much more scarce, the beginning would have been more dangerous, it would have been more rogueike-ish, and there would never have been playable alien races to begin with (let alone what people might misguidedly call the 'furry' ones).

They're like opposite ends of the same thing. Sean claims that No Man's Sky allows me to have my own science-fiction epic. Though this involves actually having a story to be a part of. Starbound fulfils that, and I have lots of fond memories of things I've done and the people I've met along the way. It's been a unique and individual experience, it even made my crew memorable to me.

In No Man's Sky, it's just a bunch of procedurally generated planets. And whilst pretty, it's that kind of manufactured 'Showroom' pretty. It feels all so empty, shallow, and soulless. It doesn't feel like anything was designed passionately. Honestly, every time I avoid a 'Jetfighters in Space!' game, I feel like I've dodged a bullet. They're all cash-ins.

Star Citizen (moving goalposts that'll result in a game that can't ever exist, along with boring technologies and dull as dishwater space travel) is just one other example of this. The same as No Man's Sky, two sides of the same coin. It's just pandering. It's like the Calls of Duties of space games. Which, hilariously, Call of Duty is now becoming! A space game, that is. Complete with 'Jetfighters in Space!' trope.

And if that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what could even lift the veil, really. If we want space games, they have to be founded in ingenuity, invention, innovation, passion, and the romance of travelling the stars, also with a good dollop of science on top to tie it all together.

Aside from Starbound, far too few space games have actually had this in... Well, when was the last one? A Final Unity, maybe? Which is funny, really. I admit, there might be others I'm forgetting, though.

-3
Jenks Avatar
352
1 Year ago

So after they said "No Man's Sky is not a multiplayer game," people are unsure if it is a multiplayer game and are trying to hang out on the same planet in game?

The stupidity on display is astounding.

-3
Anato Avatar
8
1 Year ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE0nuW-mQ8A

3