Bluehole say PUBG player banned for stream sniping was lobby hopping to try to secure kills | PCGamesN

Bluehole say PUBG player banned for stream sniping was lobby hopping to try to secure kills

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Update July 29, 2017: It's all gotten a bit he-said, she-said as PlayerUnknown releases a statement saying the Battlegrounds player banned for stream sniping, Lotoe, was lobby hopping to try to get in the same game as the streamer. Lotoe, obviously, denies it.

PlayerUnknown has responded via Twitter to the accusations that the Battlegrounds community team banned a player for stream sniping without proof. He says that Lotoe "tried to join the same lobby as their target multiple times" - Lotoe claims that he had one disconnect due to a loading bug and that was it.

Stream sniping is definitely one of several ways to not play PUBG.

Here's the statement from PlayerUnknown:

The main sticking point for the community has been that PlayerUnknown admits he can't prove the broadcast was being watched. Given Lotoe's response, that he had "one lobby that failed to load because I was alt tabbed, a common thing," it would seem a vital step to preventing a misfire without overwhelming evidence. He is in communication with the community team now, after we explained he hadn't yet heard from them in this Twitter thread.

Meanwhile, lead community manager Sammie Kang posted about Bluehole's ban policies in general over on the forums last night. She says that bans are not automated, and do not use information from social media or streams. She also explains that the system is non-final and they are working on it. On Twitter today, she pointed out that they can't release the evidence for Lotoe's ban as it may help others cheat the system.

Elsewhere, popular streamer Grimmmz has discussed on his channel getting stream snipers banned multiple times by providing Bluehole with all the necessary information. He points out that all those people said they were innocent too, though their stories didn't end up as the most popular post of all time on the subreddit.

That link via Reddit, which is currently in the midst of a popcorn crisis like I've never seen. We'll update as things develop.

Original story July 27, 2017: What a messy world online games have become. It used to be simple - kill the bots, top the leaderboards, feel good about yourself, and then go to bed at 9pm because you’ve got school in the morning. Now games like PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds have masses of real humans hunting each other, some of them streaming it to thousands of viewers online. That can end poorly if you annoy them and their communities, as player Lotoe found out last night.

As an introduction, stream sniping is where you tune into a streamer’s broadcast while in the same game as them, and use that information to defeat them. In Hearthstone, it means knowing what’s in their hand, in PUBG it’s more about where they are on the map, what they’re doing, and what gear they have. In a world of no-delay streaming for instant chat interaction, it's as regular an occurence as screen-watching in the N64 days.

Last night, two popular Counter-Strike-turned-PUBG streamers, Shroud and Summit1G, were duoing together. They were killed by a group of stream snipers a couple of times and were understandably a bit annoyed about it. After a short gunfight in which Summit died but Shroud took their mutual opponent out, Lotoe strolled up and killed Shroud.

“I was just outrunning the blue [the name given to PUBG’s ever-decreasing kill field] trying to get to the edge of the circle, which was [next to] the fight that Summit and Shroud were having with a duo of stream snipers,” Lotoe explains to me via Discord. “[I] heard all the shots being fired so I went to go [and] get some loot. When I got there, Shroud killed some guy on a hill and went to go loot him and get out of the blue, which is when I shot and killed him.”

You can see it from Shroud’s perspective in this (rather explicit) Twitch clip. Lotoe says that about 20 seconds after that he got sniped himself. He then loaded into another game, eventually died, and was booted to a screen that said he was banned. The assumption is that mass reporting from stream viewers - a fairly common practice - led to the ban.

Lotoe then got in contact with Hawkinz via Discord, a community coordinator for the game, who told him that the ban was for stream sniping and would last seven days. As Lotoe explained then and to me, “I don't even watch Twitch, if I do it’s normally some ESL thing or whatever.”

Meanwhile, this was all blowing up over on Reddit, where the post from a friend of Lotoe’s sits at 10,000 upvotes and is one of the most popular posts of all time. It’s the latest in a long line of PR problems for the world’s hottest game right now, including the addition of cosmetic loot boxes and people being banned for righteous teamkills.

Lotoe has submitted a ban appeal but hasn’t been contacted by anyone on the PUBG yet. Lead community manager Sammie (PoopieQueen on Twitter - hey, I just write the news, I don’t judge) says there should be a statement soon:

Sammie has not responded to our request for comment yet, and with most of the developers and community team either asleep or attending the ChinaJoy event, it might be a few hours before all this gets cleared up. There's always the possibility that Lotoe is lying to me and the community at large, but it doesn't seem likely.

While banning for stream sniping itself is a good idea - ruining their experience is as bad as doing it for anyone else, even if they have tools to fight it - verifying it seems impossible. Given this is the first high-profile incident of it that has happened and, at least according to the people involved, it was a misfire, that doesn’t bode well. It also doesn’t look good in the face of a community that already have a problem with the favouritism and access afforded to professional streamers. The general belief is that Bluehole are already too trigger happy when it comes to the big boot.

We’ll update when we hear more.

Subnautica
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Flappers avatarBaptism avatarXerkics avatarShadowized avatarJenks avatarBen Barrett avatar+20
Jenks Avatar
348
7 Months ago

"While banning for stream sniping itself is a good idea"

No, it isn't.

11
Omicron Avatar
5
Omicron(3 days 16 hours played)
7 Months ago

I agree as you can hardly prove stream sniping, banning anyone for it is just stupid...

The way is prevention. Like anonymised or hidden nicknames.

That can be an option offered by game dev, or if you can hide you in-game name in your stream.

2
Ben Barrett Avatar
516
7 Months ago

Yeah, it is

-10
bekabam Avatar
5
7 Months ago

Ben,

Obviously everyone wants a game to be fair and balanced. This issue should really come down to statistics. The amount of stream sniping that exists (pretty much unquantifiable), and the percentage of the player base that it affects.

In an idealistic view, yes everyone agrees stream sniping should not exist, though in a pragmatic sense it can be viewed as the risk taken for streaming. There are plenty of options to mitigate stream sniping, yet these members aren't taking advantage of those measures. Then they use their clout to influence biased change on internal and external stakeholders.

5
SUPERMANcini Avatar
1
SUPERMANcini(19 days 17 hours played)
7 Months ago

"There are plenty of options to mitigate stream sniping, yet these members aren't taking advantage of those measures"

What options do you think they have, exactly? Putting on a stream delay is the only thing I can think of, and no one likes that because then there's no interaction between chat and the streamer. Not really a good solution.

1
Ben Barrett Avatar
516
7 Months ago

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said. Getting rid of it is a good idea, actually doing it is almost impossible.

-4
UncleGamer Avatar
2
UncleGamer replied to Ben Barrett
7 Months ago

Actually doing it is very easy. Put a delay into your stream. A delay of as little as 30 seconds would make this hard to do. Go even further, do not live stream.

This is just part of being public with your gaming and wanting celebrity status. Instead of the paparazzi you get trolls and stream snipers.

2
LunarD3ATH Avatar
7
LunarD3ATH replied to Ben Barrett
7 Months ago

That is not at all what you said. You're saying "ban people for stream sniping" and they are saying "people need to be more careful and not abuse the ban system".

Two completely separate points.

2
Jenks Avatar
348
7 Months ago

Nah, wrong.

3
zE K -FG Avatar
1
zE K -FG(13 hours played)
6 Months ago

No, Ben, it isn't.

1
Shadowized Avatar
143
7 Months ago

I tried to watch a few pubg streamers and honestly I can't stand their egos, literally 10+ minutes of ranting on about how somebody must be cheating (stream sniping, wallhacks, whatever) in some form or another when they die. right, because surely nobody can be better than them. I'm aware a lot of them are attempting to put on a show for their viewers, but to me I simply close the stream because I can't handle those levels of idiocy.

that said... the thing this article doesn't touch on at all is the fact that a lot of these streamers have a large enough userbase that they can in fact abuse anyone that the streamer paints a target on, without any proof that the target did anything wrong. which leads to the usual rounds of harassment, flaming, and eventual doxing/swatting as we've seen in the past, Quite ridiculous.

also funny that the developers ban for stream sniping, if any streamer gave a shit about being watched maybe they should stream with a delay or cover up their minimaps instead of crying.

7
Aphemra Avatar
1
Aphemra(4 days 17 hours played)
7 Months ago

If you want a streamer with zero ego go check out wolvesatmydoor. He's a medium sized streamer but that just makes for a great chat environment. (:

1
The Pizza Avatar
2
The Pizza(14 days 15 hours played)
7 Months ago

I can 90% of the time tell were you are in PUBG at a glance. Covering the mini map is pointless.

Streamers that want audience interaction can't insert a delay as the chat would come in minutes later.

I agree, however, that the audience is typically very toxic both too the players the streamers mention and to the community as a whole. Just not sure what a solution would be, past a twitch ban, which seems pretty useless.

0
Saiph Avatar
43
7 Months ago

Has "autism" really become a pejorative term now?? That's VERY sad. Maybe you should suffer from it yourself and see what it's like, before using it as a form of insult.

-6
Shadowized Avatar
143
7 Months ago

yes it has, go write a post about it on reddit.

6
Flappers Avatar
302
7 Months ago

It's fairly obvious what Bluehole and PU care about, and that's the dollaroo. Streamers bring in players, and viewers, which all adds up. If they piss off a streamer, then they lose that viewership.

So they'll believe anything that comes out of their mouths. Insta-banning without due process is proof of this.

What's worse is that they have clearly accepted that the report system is being abused by streamers. While they actively get their viewership to report players, Bluehole and PU are accepting it.

How can they have those rules in place? Allowing streamers to abuse the reporting system, while systematically banning anyone that they do report?

Hardly a fair way to handle players. Giving streamers higher privileges in their game, while the regular player gets shitted on if they are unlucky enough to land in a server with a child-streamer who throws his mouth off whenever he gets killed.

"OH NOES THEY KILLED ME, BUT IM BETTER THAN THEM, THEY MUST BE CHEATING OR STREAM SNIPING"

6
Baptism Avatar
1
Baptism(13 days 5 hours played)
7 Months ago

I agree entirely. Especially when you reach the higher rankings/ELO ratings, you'll get more and more of the same people, so being killed or seeing the same person in your games isn't even necessarily indicative that they're "sniping" you.

Also, there are various levels of sniping as well... some may be just trying to click play at the same time so you might get in the same match, some may be more nefarious and actually using their streams to figure out exactly where they landing and stalking them. The former I have no problems with really, the latter I think is shitty, but still shouldn't be bannable really as the streamer literally publishes their stream.

1
Xerkics Avatar
421
7 Months ago

Pretty much

1
Stranger Avatar
103
7 Months ago

You say that but they banned DrDisrepect for teamkilling.

1
YesIAmTheSpaceman Avatar
11
7 Months ago

Different situation entirely - DrDisrespect personally offended thd game's creator. Much as I empathize when PU, the way he banned DrDisrespect was fair. The way he reacted afterwards is more a symbol of PUBG's internal corruption than anything else.

1
The Pizza Avatar
2
The Pizza(14 days 15 hours played)
7 Months ago

Two points.

The streamers didn't submit a ban request. Summit1G said he would if they did it again. It was the audience that submitted it.

Second they were very obviously steam snippers in this case as they were saying so over the game's open voice chat.

The fact that this guy got caught up in the whole ordeal is sad, but it was not the streamers daily, it was the audience.

I do feel bad for players who are in and around the big streamers, they typically get soaked with add requests on steam, harassed on chat, etc etc. It's the audience that go further than just watching that need to be ban.

0
Dusty Nuts McGee Avatar
5
7 Months ago

Then don't fucking video yourself playing games! You set yourself up to be stream sniped. The sniper is playing the game and wrecking you for being a dumbass and live streaming your game.

5
MrJinxed Avatar
909
7 Months ago

That developer is full of shit. Banning someone because the streamer cried wolf is a terrible idea. Plus there's the fact that the streamer himself is a confirmed stream sniper. He admitted it in one of his own streams. Proof is on reddit in one of the big threads about it. So why won't he get the same treatment.

3
KWPops Avatar
2
KWPops(7 days 15 hours played)
6 Months ago

This is as dumb as banning people for using the car horn, that BLUEHOLE put in the game. It's asinine. Some of these "streamers" cheat their asses off, using aim bot, but they don't get the vac ban. As a person that has been pc gaming since quake, it's quite easy to tell, when someone is using AIM bot. An obvious example is Grimmz. He snaps his sight up, it's on a door, that he can't see through, or into, shoots and kills someone behind the door. Yet, he had NO way of knowing that person was there, except for the fact that the aim bot drew down on the door. The loser streamers get away with that shit and then cry that they are being stream sniped. It's idiotic as hell. I have not had ban issues, but I wish I had not supported this Dev team., by buying the game.

2
Omicron Avatar
5
Omicron(3 days 16 hours played)
7 Months ago

Massive reporting... is massive bs...

1
MrCasualNoob Avatar
1
6 Months ago

Mr. Grimmmz has since deleted that clip of him admitting to that, but I've dug up a clip on YouTube. So here ya go.

​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5-XIgnJjkg

Huge discussion on the whole stream sniping thing on the official forums, which started a day before PlayerUnknown tweeted out his message explaining the ban. There has still been no response from any admin, moderator or PlayerUnknown himself. I've personally emailed him on his Bluehole account ( it's right there on his twitter account ) on the 3rd, and sent Sammie Kang a message on the 5th. No response from either person about the thread or to the messages I've sent.

1
desertaria Avatar
1
5 Months ago

The ego of streamers seem to grow in sync with the number of viewers they accrue, it's absolutely unnecessary for a company to intercede and babysit these whiners, and yet here we are.

1
serfreeman1337 Avatar
1
serfreeman1337(26 days 4 hours played)
2 Months ago

why does they ban for in-game feature ??? there is built in client stream sniping tool aka friends tab nickname search which allows you to join same server with your favorite streamer. just write nickname and press refresh until its showed "matching" and join the battle vs your streamer LUL

1
hereyougo Avatar
1
7 Months ago

Nova and Lotoe were both in a game with summit1g and minikerr July 12th. Nova, the OP of the stream sniper thread, said it was "literally impossible" to get in a match with a streamer. Turns out BOTH NOVA AND LOTOE were in the ruins while summit and mini were in the broken down castle in the ruins. Seems pretty fishy to me...oh and nova made his Steam profile private so you can't see his screenshots anymore. Luckily I saved screenshots and uploaded them.

PROOF:

http://imgur.com/a/Db5in OP stating that he has never been in a game with a streamer

http://imgur.com/a/Np0pJ this is OP's Profile

http://imgur.com/a/7qjpA OP's profile screenshots(read the caption) Both Nova and Lotoe in duos(top right) summit and mini both in kill feed. Also seems like Nova's mini map icon is pointed towards where summit and mini were.

http://imgur.com/a/FA7dV Clear image of screen shot that was taken by Nova

Second Edit(Minikerr Knocks out Lotoe

https://clips.twitch.tv/CreativeSteamyClipsmomKAPOW

0
Cloopz Avatar
1
7 Months ago

So why is it when I watch online poker they don't get stream sniped? Because of a simple delay of stream.

If streamers had that bad a problem then put a 5min stream delay.

Feel bad for the collateral damage but don't feel bad for the actual stream snipers who get banned.

-1
Cashis Avatar
1
Cashis(25 days 16 hours played)
7 Months ago

these guys stream hundreds of hours a month. they do it for a living.

they know when they are getting stream sniped . and the fact it is two of the more respected and chill streamers in all of twitch. id say yeah maybe unfair.

bottom line. the kid got what he deserved. its only 7 days. if hes smart he will never stream snipe again (allegedly) lul

-2